alianora | Epsilon

I have been contemplating the problematic nature of a beta. mainly because i need one for my latest gilmore girls fic and NO ONE CARES, but also because i am evil and i feel my betas should know what they are getting into with me. and because i have had more than my fair share of betas who check my spelling and grammer and think they are done. *shakes head sadly* poor misguided fools.

i am also the beta from hell, so people should know what they are getting into when they ask me to beta for them.

BETA DEFINITION:
A beta, in my opinion, is someone extremely similar to a professional editor, only they dont get paid to put up with my whiney, needy self. They read through my stories several times, and need to be prepared to be barraged with nitpicky questions about plot and characters.

BETA RESPONSIBILITIES:

A beta can start off simple. Run that sucker through the spell check/grammer check before you do anything else. chances are, ive missed something obvious and stupid. also, you might have a more customized dictionary than i do.

now, read it. skim for meaning as you are going. if you notice something massivly out of place, make a note. you can do this a number of ways. before i discovered the cool "highlight changes" feature of Word, i just divided the whole thing up into chunks and talked about each chunk individually.

dont just say "this line sucks" HELP ME. is it awkward? out of characters? exposition? too wordy? offer suggestions and options, as well as explanations of why you dont like it/like it. also try and note anything that stands out as fabulous or very strong. it helps to know what works and what doesnt.

now, reread it again, much slower. note any misspelled common words (there, their, theyre) or names that slipped by both sets of radar. those you dont really NEED to mark, unless its something you arent sure of. mostly, just change them. i wont notice, and will appreciate the help.

now, once more, read it through, skimming again. anything you missed, i missed, or you have formed an opinion of a line you either liked or disliked, let me know. sometimes, if im worried about missing grammer or spelling or something, ill read the damn thing backwards so i dont get caught up in the story and can concentrate on the words.

save it, email it back.

chances are, with me, youre going to get it sent back for another run. this way, you can read the changes and tell me if it helped or if the new stuff is out of character, doesnt flow, whatever.

this is also where i attack with random questions. "does this plot point make sense?" "is this too obvious?" "does this particular line that im not happy with sound stupid?"

this is generally when my betas decide they hate me and run away with no forwarding address. or they are fabulous, answer my questions and pet me a little for such hard work.

obviously, i like the faboo ones better. the ones who stick with me usually get nifty thank yous in the author notes..unless i ditz out and completely forget, which has happened (hi, Kara, id really like to say thanks for beta'ing the HP fic. really.)

a beta has to put up with a lot from me, and i dont blame you if you just decided that joining the circus as the performing bear would be safer and less traumatic than beta'ing for me. and generally, now a days, its easier for me to go unbeta'd on my short stuff. and seeing as i write a majority of shorts, i dont often need a beta.

but when i do, or when someone asks me to beta, i figure you might wanna know what you're going to have to deal with. Me. and im scary. i dont pull punches. i try to say things nicely, but if it doesnt work, it doesnt work. i dont care if you are my very best friend.

also, i dont expect all my beta advice to be taken. but i do expect some of it. and at least say thanks.

of course, im bad about some of this. i realized after i posted All Gone Aside, that i had managed to post the unbeta'd version with the correct ending. so i had to go back through and locate all those tenses that kara was nice enough to fix me for. *headdesk*

wow, this was..really obnoxious. and long. cant forget long.

what do you expect out of a beta for yourself? idle curiousity, but indulge me. please?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You want that I should beta this? I'm not too up on Gilmore Girls, except knowing that Luke and Lorelei belong together, and I love Rory's grandpa. And Lane, because she's way too cool.

So, yeah.

would you? its only a little over 1200 words, so its not very long. but this is still a new fandom for me, so i need the reassurance of a beta. :) its a Lorelai piece..about her and Luke's first date.

after reading all this, you honestly WANT to beta for me? i think you might be crazier than i am!

Yes to the craziness and the beta. :)

check your email. and bless you!!

A very interesting take on the role of the beta; as you know, I've linked to it from my beta essay/question thing :) and that I found this via the Snitch .
I don't know what to expect from a beta; generally I'm just grateful for whatever they do. As a beta myself, I check SPG, characterization, that there is a plot and that there aren't gaping holes the author missed... that kind of thing.
~Soul

see, its possible im a little obsessive over the beta thing..i dont want just a note that says, "grammer looks great!" i want to know what works, what doesnt, possibilities that could make it better...if characterization is off,etc. im very picky.

You are my new best friend.

This is precisely what I think a beta should be--as you said, along the lines of a professional editor who unfortunately doesn't get paid. If people just want their piece to be spellchecked and grammar-checked, then they can run their own damn spellcheck. Or at least make it perfectly clear when they send a preliminary email to a beta that all they want is for it just to be checked for spelling/grammar.

When I started offering my beta skills, I had people like you in mind to be my betaees--people who were good writers and who genuinely wanted to improve their work by collaborating with another semi-knowledgable person and working out the kinks of a piece. Sadly, I was very, very disappointed. I have yet to find a betaee like this, let alone a beta like this.

I've been searching forever to find a beta who will do these kinds of things--not just check my grammatical/spelling errors but also to work through a piece with me and work with me on flow, characterization, and just plain tell me when something just doesn't sound right.

The apathetic authors who send me their writing A)Just want me to correct S/G errors and B)Don't take my suggestions when I do. It's [having even my spelling corrections ignored, among other things] seriously soured me on betaing, although I do it still. But I've almost stopped trying to look for flow/characterization/etc. problems in people's work, and have myself been reduced to just the S/G checker.

Public Service Announcement: People, be kind to your betas! They do know what they're talking about!

Sorry for rattling on. There's a bunch of beta-induced rage in me. *hides*

Sorry for rattling on. There's a bunch of beta-induced rage in me. *hides*

dont hide, believe me, you arent the only one. *nothing* makes me angrier than to explain what i want out of a beta, and then get a one line response to the fic. "It sounds great!" *beats to death with your icon's rock*

and im right there with you on the betaees issue. dammit people, spell check is *right there*, use it! and then listen to me!

if you, uh, write in any of my fandoms, i would be more than happy to beta for you at some point, iffen you need it....

You are my new best friend
why, thank you. i love being adored!

At last, some people who look at beta reading the same way I do! I've done a lot of writing, and a fair amount of beta-reading. You know why I no longer offer to beta read for anyone? Because I spend many, many hours correcting the same bloody mistakes for people who can't be bothered to make the corrections. So draft after draft, story after story, I see the same spelling and grammar errors.

I take the time to explain the spelling and grammar rules for people who don't get it; I give examples. I send books. You know what I get in response? Not a beta credit, not much of a thank you, just complaints about how picky I am. This is after I warned the author ahead of time that I'm very picky, I correct for spelling, grammar, content, characterization, etc.

If someone chooses not to take my advice as to whether a story works, or would appeal to a very small audience or a wide one, that's fine. But if they beg and plead for someone to read their story, then reject every single question/concern I point out, I give up. I figure if someone appears out of character, and there's no explanation given as to their emotional motivation and how it has changed their character, then it will be confusing for others, too. I don't mind OOC if there's an actual reason given in the story. If it's meant to be a PWP, fine, label it that way. If it's meant to be more of a character introspection, then damn it, I want to know what's going on in the character's head, not just what's happening with various body parts.

I've always thought of a beta reader as a combination of proofreader, editor, and first-run audience. If my beta reader tells me they're confused about something, or asks questions, I appreciate it. It gives me an idea of how someone outside of my own head is perceiving the story. It's quite possible that something that's perfectly obvious to me has not been made clear to the reader. Some things you want the reader to work out for themselves, but that's not the same as sloppy or lazy writing. If it's really confusing, then I haven't done my job properly as an author, and need to do some revision.

I need an outside opinion as to whether the story will work for anyone but me. If it doesn't seem to have outside appeal, I don't publish it, I keep it for my own amusement.

One last thing: Beta readers should preferably be familiar with the fandom or fandoms you are working with. If you are writing in a fandom you don't know well, find a beta reader who does know it, and pay attention to what they say. If what you want to do is outside of canon for a series you don't know well, it's possible you're crossing over the wrong series, and perhaps another fandom will more naturally fall into the proper niche.

yeah, i always make sure to *warn* people about how evil i am as a beta. i do for others what i want them to do for me. and therefore, am picky as hell.

i *hatehatehate* when i work really hard beta'ing, as it is timeconsuming and a pain, and then, not get a thank you or even one stupid thing changed that i told them about.

've always thought of a beta reader as a combination of proofreader, editor, and first-run audience.

i love this definition. you might want to include evil bitca, psycho, or grammer nazi just to make sure people get the message. :)

sounds like we have very similar ideas about what a beta is for. i need someone to tell me if something that seems really clear to me makes sense in the context of the plot, or if ive forgotten something important, like backstory. or verbs.

Beta readers should preferably be familiar with the fandom or fandoms you are working with.

did i not say this? hmm, guess i didnt. i wonder why not..but i shouldve. and i meant to. because if you dont know the fandom, how are you going to know if its OOC or the plot makes no sense in the universe?

thanks for responding! im loving all this well thought out conversation! whee!

Epsilon

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